In the previous post I asked the question "Does God cause or allow suffering?". Then I suggested that God allows it and cited Job 1 as a reference. In this place we find God giving Satan permission to tempt Job. However we must also note that God set limits on what Satan could do to Job. The question would follow then "Why does God allow suffering? For what purpose? Are there scriptures to answer these questions? The answer would be found in James 1:2-4.
As we look at this passage in James we find him talking by inspiration about temptation. Such temptation serves to build character. If you haven't already done so get your Bible and read the passage. James uses the phrase "the proving of your faith. . ." . Isn't that what happened to Job?
God told Satan that Job was faithful and strong. Satan said that God had built a fence around Job to protect him. God told Satan to do whatever he wanted to Job only do not touch his body. God set the limits on what Satan could do to Job.
Without question there was much suffering involved in the loss of his family and his possessions. Keep in mind that this was not over a period of time but rather all in one day! There was also temptation involved. Temptation to blame God, to deny God, to curse God for allowing it to happen. Yet Job proved faithful.
When Satan saw Job's response he went to God again. God again set the limits. This time God allowed Satan to afflict Job's person. We find Job on the ash heap scraping the boils on his body with a piece of broken pottery. Again Job was faithful to God.
Job's suffering allowed his character to be seen by all. Not only that, it proved his faith. Would any deny that his faith was tested? This is part of the reason God allows suffering.
We have then established that God allows suffering in part to prove our faith. It should also be noted that we suffer at times in the form of discipline. That is, God disciplining us. Hebrews12:4-13.
The Hebrew writer uses Christ the perfect example to show us how to live, then he quotes the Old Testament prophet to remind us of the necessity of chastening (discipline). Following this we are told that God chastens those whom he loves, much like a father does his children. No one enjoys being chastened. We learn from this passage what we should already know, that chastening is only for "a few days". If we learn well we do not need to have the lesson repeated.
An interesting concept involved in this study is that of "learning obedience by the things suffered." Christ suffered and thereby learned obedience according to the scriptures (Hebrews 5:8).
Here is your thought question. "What type of obedience do we learn by the things which we suffer?"
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Sometimes we do, learn and not repeat, sometimes we don't: Proverbs 22:3 and 27:12.
New here started reading and just interested in knowing to whom are we proving our faith? God, man, or ourselves? Also do we get repeated lessons or just a continuos lesson until we learn?
Dear Solomon:
1.) Welcome, looking forward to your contributions to the blog :).
2.) The text in the ASV as I believe Josiah is using states:
"(2) Count it all joy, my brethren, when ye fall into manifold temptations; (3) Knowing that the proving of your faith worketh patience. (4) And let patience have its perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, lacking in nothing." As you read this text, you may note that 1.) they were to have joy, 2.) because of their manifold (diverse or many) temptations, 3.) they were to know that, 4.) the proving of their faith worketh (accomplishes) patience, 5.) they were to let (allow) patience to have her perfect (complete) work, 6.) to the end that they were to be perfect, complete (entire), and lacking in nothing. Who, then, is doing the proving? It is the manifold temptations.
3.) The word proving is "dokimion" according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Greek and Hebrew Lexicon. And according to Thayer's Greek Definitions The word means:
"dokimion
Thayer Definition:
1) the proving
2) that by which something is tried or proved, a test
Part of Speech: noun neuter" I submit, therefore that the word is proving or trying and the method by which their faith was tried was by manifold temptations.
4.) You asked if we get one continuous lesson (and I assume you are referring to the chastening) or is it repeated lessons. I would like to ask you: "How do you respond if your child (hypothetically if you do not have any :) ) keeps doing the same wrong thing? Do you continually chastise him/her until he learns or do you chastise on an infraction basis? To constantly chasten day in and day out, in my opinion, would be unwarranted and the equivalent of abuse, for you never stop except to sleep. Chastening on an infraction basis, however, is to give the child an opportunity to do your will in the right manner.
I, of course, tend to commit several sins on a daily basis. They may not be the same sins and I may be getting better, but still ... May God forgive.
Christian
Solomon: thank you for joining our discussion. Your questions are very pertinent and thought provoking.
In answer to your first question "to whom are we proving our faith?" the short answer is we are not doing the proving but rather God is proving or testing our faith through the temptations. I will develop this more fully in another post soon.
As to the second question is rather difficult to answer. It depends on us. Sometimes we learn quickly and other times the lessons have to have many chapters. In this way both possibilities you suggest could be accurate.
This is very intriguing--is it then like the fire proves metal; temptations prove our faith, and as the refiner/God is actually the one who is doing the proving, yes? -D-
Dear Anonymous:
In answer to your question: yes.
Long answer is found in I Corinthians 3.
Well, it is my belief, or opinion, that it is a continuous and lifelong lesson called living. It is true that we must prove ourselves worthy but life is a continual learning experience and we therefore live under continual chastisement; for none are perfect. If we count this as suffering then what do you consider living? I know of no one that has not experienced some sort of loss, pain, ridicule, temptations, or other form of a lesser liking. It is like the saying if it wasn’t for the storms you wouldn’t notice the calm. We can learn just as much and probably need to prove ourselves more in times of joy and happiness than in the more disagreeable times. Remember that in times of happiness and joy some tend to lose sight of God. I believe, whether right or wrong, that every second of our life can be picked apart and a lesson learned there from. This is why wisdom is so limitless and a never ending.
Solomon: I am not sure of your point so will ask some questions of you to help me understand.
1. are you saying that living is suffering?
2. are you saying that life is a learning experience therefore we do not suffer?
3. or are you saying that all undesireable things that happen to us is the direct chastisement of God?
those are good questions, maybe you could answer them for us?
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